Darn good firepit advice

Gather at the firepit and plop onto an Adirondack chair. Toss a light jacket over a quarter zip or golf hoodie. A fabulous Golden Hour has concluded and it’s getting chilly outside The Cradle Crossing, the soothing social spot along the eponymous Pinehurst Resort short course.

We’re surrounded by two industry leaders. A third stalwart later joins the conversation. Gaze and listen intently as Inverness Club superintendent John Zimmers and Saucon Valley Country Club director of golf courses and grounds Jim Roney discuss leadership, mentorship and life. The conversation stems from their presence in Pinehurst as mentors for the 19th Green Start Academy, an annual training program for assistant superintendents sponsored by Envu, John Deere and Rain Bird.

How Zimmers and Roney view the evolution of the assistant superintendent positions and what they once learned in the role produce must-listen early evening dialogue. Zimmers worked as an assistant for Paul R. Latshaw, arguably the greatest identifier and developer of talent in golf maintenance history. Roney worked as an assistant at Sand Ridge Golf Club on Cleveland’s far east side for the person sitting on the Adirondack chair to his right. Zimmers and Roney share memories from their Sand Ridge days by the firepit. They reminisce to offer insight pertinent to aspiring industry leaders.

Let’s serve them a few career-driven questions and listen. Oakland Hills Country Club director of agronomy Phil Cuffare will join the conversation at the urging of Zimmers and Roney. The majors conducted at Pinehurst, after all, start with talented groups of three carefully grouped together.

What type of opportunity do you see for a talented assistant these days?

Roney: There are so many options out there. There are so many great clubs that are understaffed and don’t have the right talent. You know that old adage: the world is your oyster. In our industry, it truly is. Ten years ago, you could argue against that. Since COVID-19, clubs are looking to improve and reinvest in their primary infrastructure, which is their golf course. The opportunities are monumental. The key is to work for the right club and the right person. If a superintendent has a track record of placing successful superintendents, that’s where you want to go because you need a return on your investment because it’s expensive to go to school and pay off your student loans. That return on investment has to happen in a quick way in my mind. The important thing is going to the right club.

Zimmers: He pretty much nailed that. The opportunity right now is unlimited. You need to work at the right place, for the right person, and know they are invested in you. You can make a lot of money right now doing this. You have to put it all together, too. We talk about work-life balance and all these things. I get it, those are important things and important decisions. You have to prioritize certain things and where you want to be. You have to have a passion to do this. As I remember Mr. Latshaw saying, ‘There isn’t somebody every day telling you to get up. There isn’t somebody making a schedule for you. There isn’t anybody doing those things for you.’ You think about that, and we have a lot of controls that are right in front of us that we get to do daily. I think it’s such a wonderful business and profession. You have to be able do budgets, you have to be able to do math, you have to be able to speak, you have to be able manage people … you have to do all these things. It’s such a unique profession.

What was your first assistant superintendent job like?

Zimmers: My first true assistant job was at Congressional in 1993 when Mr. Latshaw left Wilmington and went there. It was really demanding, and I kind of told myself, ‘Listen, if you are going to work for somebody that’s the best, you have to try to be the best.’ I sacrificed a lot. There were times it took a toll on my relationships with family and friends. But the key was you knew if you were going to do this and give that amount of time, you were going to get it back because you were working for somebody who was going to flip this script really quick. You wanted to try to learn as much as you possibly could. I have been blessed. I have interviewed for jobs, but not those big, big types of interviews. You are already kind of selected.

Roney: I had a pretty unique scenario where John worked for Mr. Latshaw, and I worked for Paul B. Latshaw at Merion. John left for Sand Ridge and was looking for an assistant. I was graduating from college and transferred, so I didn’t have my degree yet. Paul gave me the title of AIT. I said, ‘Thank you, but no thank you because AIT means nothing to me. I’m not training to be an assistant. I’m training to be a golf course superintendent.’ I just wanted to do everything that needed to be done. Paul told me that John went to Sand Ridge, and it’s a construction job. He said he had a job (at Merion) that I could slide into when I graduated — or I could go work for John. So, I flew to Cleveland and met John and his wife, Tracey. I stayed with them and walked the golf course. It was during clearing, and we spent two days walking in the woods.

Zimmers: And I thought there was zero percent chance he was coming. The mud was like an ocean and the weather wasn’t that great when he visited.

Roney: When I got back to Philly and Paul asked, ‘What do you think?’ I said, ‘Paul, I can stay here and work at one of the top five courses in the world, and I know I can grow here. Or I can take myself out of my comfort zone and jump into something where I have no idea about things like surveying, land clearing, permitting and zoning meetings. I’m going to do that.’ I went and did that. It was honestly the best decision of my life.

Zimmers: We worked so much. We never thought about work-life balance and all that stuff. Jim and I would be at dinner and a truck would come and we would have to unload it. There was so much to it. But it was fun. We were young, and we didn’t think about it. All we thought about was this piece of land and what we were going to do with it. Jim, I don’t know about you, but I don’t have any regrets.

Roney: None. When you work for somebody like (Sand Ridge founder) Bill Conway, you wanted to produce for him. He’s such an amazing person. When your alarm went off, you went to work. It’s harder for me to wake up now with where I’m at in my career than it was then. You went to bed, woke up and were ready to go to work. You showered, grabbed your lunch and off you went.

Do you see assistants now who worked like you did when you were assistants?

Zimmers: I have been blessed to have really, really good, dedicated people who work hard — and they probably would tell you it was hard or whatever. But I will tell you it changed their life. They went on to be very, very successful. You need to work hard to be different than the rest. You have to do something to be different.

Cuffare: And we don’t work to just work. It’s totally to accomplish the end goal.

Zimmers: I’m lucky, too. Sometimes on a Saturday night, as stupid as it is, Tracey and I get out in the cart and look at the course in the evening, and I feel better. I love it.

Cuffare: There are people who are envious of our jobs. All my friends outside of the golf industry who I grew up with think it’s the greatest job.

Zimmers: Our stress comes from stuff that we generally can’t control. That’s the conversation you want to have with these young people.

Cuffare: We solve problems from the moment we wake up to the moment we go to bed and sometimes we go to bed late because those problems are still persisting. It’s non-stop. We’re problem solvers. Unfortunately, or fortunately, we are really good at solving problems.

Roney: That’s why it’s frustrating because you might be in a meeting where somebody can’t solve a problem and you’re thinking, ‘This is really easy.’

What will separate assistants from their peers as their careers progress?

Zimmers: For me, if I’m sitting in that room, and I just went to school or whatever, why wouldn’t I aspire to be the best? If you’re going to do this, why not do it the best you can and be compensated the best you can?

Roney: It’s hard to win, it’s easy to lose, I’ll pick up the leaves in the parking lot … that’s how you separate yourself. Also, don’t be afraid to make a decision and take a chance on something. Because if you’re going to rest on your laurels and accept mediocrity or the ho-hum part of your job, you’re not helping yourself or us, and you’re not getting any better.

What is the future of the superintendent and assistant superintendent positions?

Roney: The upside for a select group is going to be way more than what we had. There are going to be great clubs that are going to be looking for talented young people to run their clubs. That’s attributed to the fact we had COVID and golf really became something that was prominent. That’s one side of it. The other side of that is that if the individual really doesn’t commit themselves, then they could put themselves in a situation where they are faced with what the norms are and the norms seem to now be not doing the extra part, not doing more to separate themselves. That’s not how success is built or how winning is built. It’s really in the eye of the beholder. How much you put in, that’s what you’ll get back 10 times.

Zimmers: The people at these clubs are trusting you to be around their parents, their family, their kids, the whole deal. When you’re around clubs that are good, solid clubs, there’s a value to that.

Cuffare: I get worried, but that’s why I spend time with these guys because I want to bring this thing in closer. It’s up to us to remold that future. Because if we let somebody else mold it, we’re not going to like it.

Zimmers: Isn’t that interesting how he said that he gets worried? We don’t really have to care as much as we do, but we do, right? We want to pass it along. We want people to know they can do well in this industry.

Cuffare: When I sat down at my table last night, I thought, ‘I have a lot of work to do.’ When I walked off the ninth green here, I felt my work was almost done. I asked them on the third hole, ‘What do you want to be?’ The good thing is I think everybody started figuring out what they wanted to be, but if you don’t have a roadmap or know what you want to be …

Are you confident there are people out there who can carry this industry on and demonstrate the same passion you and your mentors have demonstrated?

Roney: I think John should answer this.

Zimmers: No! You don’t know what tomorrow is going to be. We’re going to be dealing with robotics and all kinds of different things. I say, no, because I can’t answer that question. But yes, there are people out there.

What can somebody do to get jobs like the jobs you have?

Roney: You want to go work somewhere where there’s a track record. My son works for Paul B. now. I told him, ‘If you work somewhere where somebody has your best interest in mind, don’t worry about where you fall in the pecking order. Be honest, work hard, take what is given to you. Allow your work to pay for itself.’ If an opportunity like that is there for you — I don’t care what club you’re at — that’s where that assistant needs to be.

Cuffare: I look at success rates. I don’t gamble, I don’t go to casinos. It’s a sure thing if you go work for some guys.